Motivating the World’s Largest Generation

Are you having trouble relating to your millennial staff?  Do you wonder why they seem disengaged?  Make sure to check out this podcast with the author of the best selling book, The Millennial Whisperer: The Practical, Profit-Focused Playbook for Working with and Motivating the World’s Largest Generation, Chris Tuff.  He lays out the strategies and practical tips you’ll need to motivate this next generation.

Podcast Transcript

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    Josh Fonger: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Work the System podcast, where we help entrepreneurs make more and work less. Using system and systems. And I’m your host, Josh Fonger. And today we’ve got a special guest. We have Chris Tuff. Chris is the national best selling author of The Millennial Whisper, which was released in February 2019 and quickly became the number two best selling book at Barnes Noble. His dynamic approach to attracting and motivating the next generation in the workplace has had featured in Forbes, Fast Company, Fox TV News and more. Chris is also a partner at a twenty two squared, a full service advertising agency based at Atlanta, Georgia, where he oversees content marketing and partnerships, as well as the Employee Engagement Consulting Division. Chris held many different roles within the 10 years he’s been there and now focuses his time building new offerings and motivating the millennial generation in the workplace. Chris was one of the first marketers to work directly with Facebook in 2005 and is now one of the foremost thought leaders in the digital space. Always on top of emerging trends, he oversees all content marketing and helps push out push to get out existing clients access to first to market ads, products and offerings. He’s responsible for partnership involvement with technology, media companies like Twitter, Google, Facebook and beyond. I am very excited to have him on because this is gonna be great for me to learn from the millennial whisperer himself. Alright, Chris so tell us the backstory. How did you get into this line of work with regards to knowing millennials and content marketing?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:01:26] Sure I fell into the digital space after sixty four job interviews, those lucky sixty five that I finally fell into a, an interview at a digital ad firm locally in Atlanta called Moxie. I was the 13th employee there and I had the benefit of one not getting those first 64 job interviews because I threw that kind of pursuit. I was able to, I think, identify where I was passionate and I; When I landed at this digital ad firm, we grew from 13 to four hundred very fast. And so I had a lot of roles over six years that I was there and I kind of found my niche in this emerging media world. And it was I mean, some of the crazy stories along the way. I was told that as I was, we were being one of the first people to work with Facebook on behalf of Verizon Wireless. It was right around that time that the owner of the company said, Chris, there’s this new thing called a viral video. And if you can get a million views of a video will give you your own department. And so I took that very literally and I filmed my engagement. This was before YouTube. So I had a camcorder and a tree as I was running down the streets of Atlanta. And I pretended to sprained my ankle to my wife. Now wife. She said yes. And I went from sprained my ankle to popping the question. And she was a scale of emotion, the Internet and never seeing because she was kind of laughing and making fun of me. And then she started crying. It was like a four minute video. I put it on Christopher Tuff dot com and fast forward a week. I got a call. This is when you had to pay for bandwidth. And I got I got a call from the server company. They said, Chris, Mr. Tuff, with your credit card on file, but you’re currently getting one hundred thousand views and it’s doubling every hour. What would you like to do? I was like, let her rip. So I ended up getting millions and millions of views. And Good Morning America flew down. It got us on the front page, The Wall Street Journal. And that’s kind of when when all that started to happen, I knew I’d kind of found this this kind of special place for me where it seemed that passions and professions were starting to overlap. And I had a failed startup. So all entrepreneurs out there, I did get my failed startup out of the way in 2008, which a lot of people struggled through. And then my wife became pregnant and I had to get health insurance and everything else. So I came to twenty to square ten years ago to help them evolve into the digital space. And so we are about one third the size back then. And I think six percent of our revenues were digital. It might have been as low as 3 percent. And now we’re up to sixty seven percent of our revenue being digital. And, you know, I’ve played a variety of roles, but really what inspired the book was hitting rock bottom for me. And I started the book that way to some people’s dismay. Chris, you can’t tell people that stuff like, well, you’ve got to practice what you preach. And so when I hit rock bottom, I changed two main things. One was I changed my metric of success from beating my brothers in the game of life, which is a horrible metric for anyone else that has that metric to success, was going to be judged on a daily basis. And it was going to be much more about impact made and how I can empower. For me, a group of 30 millennials. And then the other key thing that I changed was really moving into this coach mode and being a servant leader. And so it was about seven months in the department was cranking. So this was once again only two and a half years ago, two years ago and seven months in, I was on a guys retreat up in north Georgia with a bunch of men that I didn’t know. And we kind of I put it together as a way that we men could actually be resources for one another, mostly entrepreneurs. Average age was probably forty five. And I introduced myself as like, wait, shoot, I know what I do anymore, but I’m kind of like the millennial whisperer. And there was the guy who was leading the retreat who I didn’t know at the time, Tommy Breedlove, who turned to me as I sat down after sharing my story, because you better write that book. I was like, what book? The Millennial Whisperer. And the rest was kind of history.

    Josh Fonger: [00:05:40] Wow. Well, that’s that’s quite a wild ride in terms of metrics. Millennial Whispering advertising the growth of Facebook, viral videos. So let me see if I can kind of piece through it because, you know, our audience and they’re trying to a lot of them are older right there. If they’re 45 and older, probably half of them. And they have not quite figured out the social media thing. It sounds like they’re sounds like you have and the millennial thing. Let’s start with that. So most people are gonna hire a millennial in the next year who are listening to this. And so what what is it that you have learned because you work a lot of millennials with regards to hiring them, engage in them. What are the tricks of doing that right?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:06:20] So what? I mean, one of my favorite quotes, which has come since publishing is millennials aren’t the problem. They just expose all the problems. And I think that in our corporations or small companies, we often rely on processes and ways of leading that we have in the past. And if you look around you, everything has changed. Right. And what really changed everything is kind of what we’re doing now. It’s social media and technology. And the whole book, The Millennial Whisper that I wrote is based on statistics. And if you look statistically what they’re looking for out of their organizations, their number one thing isn’t different than any other generation in the past. The number one thing is pay and benefits. You get some great variation with their emphasis on culture and then also work flexibility. And those are two things that I think we’re starting to see come up, especially in a job market that we’re in where. Getting the recognition and the priorities that they haven’t done in years past and work flexibility is one where it is definitely first and foremost in these people’s minds that because of this they feel like they should be able to work from home here and there because they’re answering emails at all times of the day or calls. And so this accessibility thing is an a really important piece to as we’re looking to build a company that is better accommodating for millennials. Those are some of the key things. But most of my book is more about what they’re looking for from leaders. And so if you break it down, the four most important things, this is like a money slide. This is the slide. When I’m giving presentations, everyone takes pictures of. And according to the 2018 Deloitte Millennial Survey, which is by far the most comprehensive out there, the number one thing that they’re looking for out of the leaders is inspirational leadership. And then you have autonomy. So they want to be they hate micromanaging and they want transparency from their leaders. And the the the last piece is they want purpose. So they want something within their job that is bigger than just profits or a bottom line. And especially as we’re moving statistically into the next generation that are just entering the workforce right now with Gen Z. That is even more important. But you break down any one of those things. Right. Inspirational leadership, I think is a fascinating one, because you ask any leader or manager or entrepreneur, hey, you know, Bob, would you consider yourself an inspirational leader? Bob will say, yeah, you know, they light up anytime I talk to them. Thanks, Bob. And then you asked two people on Bob’s team and it’s like Erica and Joey. Is Bob an inspirational leader? Their first question is, is Bob going to find out? And there’s no Bob not going to find out. It’s like, no, he’s not an inspirational leader. And so I use that as an example of we don’t really have the right resources to judge. I think our leaders on this stuff. But also I think we should look at how we pair up to lead companies. So have order and vision or inspiration paired up. And then I love talking about autonomy and transparency because I think a lot of people even like transparency, you break that down. Most small business owners or leaders think that transparency means they have to either show how much profit they’re making and how much they’re taking themselves or on the other side that they need to cry in front of their people. And what they’re actually looking for in transparency is just connection. And so tactically in the book, some of the points I bring up is you should follow everyone on your team, on social media. And the only reason for that is so when you come in on a Monday, you can say, Meg, that that concert you went to look like so much fun. Could you tell me more about that or to another person it might be them donating their time to a habitat build. It doesn’t matter. But what that’s doing is it’s creating a bigger connection with your people in the other piece. So transparency is context, so you don’t have to necessarily just show everything, but you’ve got to build a picture for why you’re making the decisions that you’re making. Even though some of those might be mistakes last week, you might have made a mistake. Go ahead and tell them those things and the things you’ve learned or their role in and actually contributing to that effort. That is then creating this bigger picture. And I could talk a lot about a lot of those points, but I’ll let you kind of lead the discussion on it.

    Josh Fonger: [00:10:48] Now, each one of I actually want to go a little bit deeper on.

    Christopher Tuff : [00:10:51] Sure.

    Josh Fonger: [00:10:51] Because it’s real business. And so before I do, is it different with an online company versus traditional company? So let’s say you’re a dentist. Would you apply these or things differently and if you run a digital advertising agency where one’s remote?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:11:07] So the best. So that’s a great question. So one of my examples in the book is a dentist. The guy was a dentist in town, Atlanta Dental Spa. We also have restaurants as examples in the book, as well as digital companies like Ben Kirchner’s, who was called out by Forbes as the number one boss for millennials. He’s got a digital advertising firm that does a lot of technology, you know, technology work. But no, I would say that this stuff trance a lot of the points and things. It’s no different from one to the other. The one thing that I also say is that the emphasis on us as leaders to create connection. I mean, look at technology. Look, we’re connecting here. And I think that we don’t give enough credit to the ability to connect virtually with the technology that’s available to us. And so one of the examples I use in the book about the power of that is I went to New York and I was meeting with Snapchat, a guy who had known for years, and I brought one of my co-workers with me and was like, Adam. Good to see you. Give him a big hug. Was right after Snapchat open these ridiculously amazing offices and we started talking about his child that he just had. And my co-worker said, how long you guys known each other? Was like Adam how long we known each other for years. Four or five years. Adam We’ve never met in person. Are all of this relationship has been based on a closed Facebook group that we’re a part of. And we just got to know each other that way. And so I don’t think we place enough emphasis on that. But a lot of these points I think, do come through. You know, I think the other side of it, especially as we get into Gen Z, is really if you do have a virtual company or if you have people all over the place just forcing that face to face interaction, whether it be via a zoom like this versus a call or just going to meet someone for coffee, you’ve got to push that on this generation, because especially as you go into GEN Z, they grew up with cell phones and texts. And so having that face to face is something that you have to make a part of your rule system. I for one of the rules I have is that if you’re in the same week, three hundred seventy employees at our firm and most of the people are in the same office. And so I say that you’re not allowed to text, IM, or email. If they’re in the office, you’ve got to walk over that person seat and talk to them in person. And so there’s, I think, elements of those that we need to introduce more.

    Josh Fonger: [00:13:37] That’s interesting. So it’s it’s the same regardless if it’s online company or physical. But maybe the medium is a little bit different. So if it’s physical, you actually do want to go face to face because there’s things that can only be done in close proximity?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:13:50] Sure. Exactly. And, you know, I think some elements you know, one of the things that I tell a lot of entrepreneurs and and business owners is that when your head hits the pillow, at the end of the day, if you’re not utterly exhausted from rewarding and recognizing your people, you haven’t done it enough. And the reason for that. From a sociological standpoint is one they grew a lot of them grew up with helicopter parents. And this whole idea of a participation trophy was real. And then the second piece is that any time that they wanted any form of validation in the marketplace from anyone from their peer group, they post something to Instagram, they get one hundred and twenty likes. And then all of a sudden that fuels them up. And if they don’t get one hundred twenty likes, they take it down so no one sees it. And so I think there’s this element that they’re looking for. And tactically what that means is as things as simple as when someone gets a compliment from a client or if someone just did a good job for that to the rest of the team and say congratulations. But everyone, check out this awesome job that Meg did today. I think the other piece of that is just like how people take feedback. And I say that I say you’ve got to build a better sandwich in your feedback system. So go and talk about what they did well, and instead a saying “But”, you say “And” so you did a great job presenting today. And I think there’s a couple of things that we can work on. I counted how many times you said UMM it was about 24. So let’s concentrate that in the future and then you throw it with another compliments. You’ve got to get the other side of the bun and give them another compliment. And by the way, the way you pushed yourself with confidence and standing in front of a group bigger than any group you’ve ever been a part of, awesome job. So I think there are certain things that we just need to change the way that we approach this generation when we start making these small tweaks. Everything starts falling into place.

    Josh Fonger: [00:15:42] Wow, it sounds like it’s a lot of work.

    Christopher Tuff : [00:15:46] Because it is.

    Josh Fonger: [00:15:46] So when I’m thinking I might as I’m thinking, it’s like. This is a car dealership and you’re you’re the manager of a car dealership and and you used to give me quarterly reviews or if you ever did reviews at all. And so the feedback with me once a quarter or once a month and this is sounds like it’s actually been more rapid.

    Christopher Tuff : [00:16:04] In real time and actually we have I have car dealers as clients. Southeast Toyotas one of our one hundred seventy car dealers and I’ve gotten to know a few of the owners and they will reach out to me and ask, So Chris, what kind of hints to you do you have for me? And I think real time feedback is one of those where annual reviews are a waste of time. I mean, if people even make it a year nowadays, we’re lucky. And so more than anything. And I think people grow reliant on those reviews because they don’t necessarily have the checkpoints in place or the communication in place or not only reviews, but it’s also you hear that millennials have to be promoted every six months. People like Chris, you have to make up job, you know, job new job positions in between these. Because you got to promote them every six months. And I always tell them that that’s indicative of a greater issue because they’re relying on those job promotions to fill them up with this kind of, I think, reward and recognition that. So it’ll save you a ton of money in the end. And all of these promotions and all of these this work, if you can just do it in a more real time and also person to person communication versus all, everyone thinks that a review is like, oh, now here comes it’s going to be so bad. It’s like, no, it doesn’t have to be so bad. So, yeah,.

    Josh Fonger: [00:17:30] That’s interesting. Well, so I’ve read a lot of books on this topic and I sure you do too. And it seems like a lot of things you came up with. Are there not, people have not change that much. Money still is a key thing. People are still working for money. But is that what I’m hearing and I’ve read your book at it seems like it’s the rapidness of it leveraging technology. But let’s go to a real world example. So let’s let’s just because we brought up lets just say dental office and you’re the leader of that if you’re a dentist and. Are there certain things you should do to be inspiring it, to be inspiring once a year at the annual Christmas dinner, or do you have to be inspiring like every single morning, how offen do you have to be inspiring?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:18:10] So I think a lot of people think, especially my introvert friends that are leaders, their like well; I mean, how do I be inspiring all the time? And what I tell them is you can be inspiring through text, you can be inspiring through emails. And so how do you use some of these devices that are available to us in systems that we can create? That can also help with that. So dental offices that the example I use in the book is what’s known as ADS bucks, which is Atlanta dental spa bucks. And what my friend Peter does with his dental office is he will give every one. I think it’s like fifty dollar ADS buck that they can present to someone else. So he’s taken as he’s he’s actually pushing down the recognition and the building up and a little bit of that inspiration and saying, all right, people, here’s your 50 bucks at the beginning of the month. Fill it out and post it on the board in our common area. When; By the end of the month. And so by the end of the month, what will happen is people starts start looking at the board and they’re making 150 bucks. Sally might have done got three fifty dollar eighty ADS bucks and these amazing compliments written by her peers. But the other is the other side is true as well, where you’ve got the person that goes up to that board three months in a row and there’s nothing up there for them. So it’s also this kind of nose flick or reality check where it’s like, OK. Not only is my boss not doing this, but my peers aren’t doing it. So I think that’s one of the key pieces. But one of the other parts of inspirational leadership is also comes in that form of transparency and context, where just the more that you can give people the full picture of what’s going on with your business and an element of honesty within that. And then that connection will go far beyond you just getting them. When we try to say inspirational, you think of the person that is the rah rah extrovert. Like, here’s where we got. It doesn’t necessarily just have to take that form.

    Josh Fonger: [00:20:14] So you want to be Tony Robbins. You can you can just be regular.

    Christopher Tuff : [00:20:17] Exactly. Exactly

    Josh Fonger: [00:20:19] That’s cool. And you know, as you’re saying this, it is maybe a bad example or good example. But I have a client who’s a as a painter and growing his painting business out. As his team distributed further and further away you realize the only way you could be inspiring was to do a video. So we came up with this system where once a week in time you felt like inspired you would shoot a little video on his phone. He made sure all employees were part of the same Facebook group. And it was just he was going to the company. You know, this you know, Jimmy did a good job this week. I love how you guys paint that house. Go get them. They’re just super simple to take five minutes a week.

    Christopher Tuff : [00:20:52] Totally.

    Josh Fonger: [00:20:53] But that made a dramatic impact on his business.

    Christopher Tuff : [00:20:55] So smart. And you know, another example I use in the book and this is I mean, it’s more along the lines of just connection and allowing your people to be heard. But I use my friend Robby Coogler, who has about, I think, nine restaurants around Atlanta. And I asked him, what are some of those tactics that you’re putting in place? Because you’re getting a lot of hourly workers, right. You’re getting in a job market where they can kind of get anything they want. So what are you doing to help with this current environment in Atlanta? To get talent for restaurants right now is super, super tough because of unemployment rate being so low and all the restaurants popping up. He said, I do something very simple and all I do on a quarterly, quarterly basis. I take my hourly workers and I give them one of my restaurants to just come talk to me as a group in a town hall type scenario and to ask me questions, to tell me all their frustrations without their managers being there. But I also do the same thing with the managers and I do the same thing with the supervisors. And what that does is it allows this more one on one communication where they can hear straight from me what’s going on. And obviously for those with more virtual companies, you can do that same sort of thing, given Zoom and Facebook and all these other tools. And I thought that was a good point where just people want to be heard and they will just want to get it off their off their chest and be heard. And with that, you’re a step above your competition.

    Josh Fonger: [00:22:29] Yeah, I would like that. Sam’s my partner partners got a concept because of the mysterious boss concept is that if you’re a mysterious boss, you’re in for a world of trouble in the future. So just don’t be.

    Christopher Tuff : [00:22:39] Especially in today’s day and age, that’s for sure.

    Josh Fonger: [00:22:41] We found out. So Autonomy says the next thing. So let’s say you say you’re a restauranteur and you’ve got your employees. But of course, they got to be there, you know, wash dishes and serve people and make and pour drinks. So how do you give them a sense of autonomy? How does that work?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:22:56] So one of the concepts that was introduced to me by my friend, Well I met him when writing this book. Forbes called him the number one boss for millennials and he introduced me to a really interesting concept that I put into tactical application within my team. And it’s this idea of protect your house. And part of that autonomy is that they want to feel like you’re pushing down that responsibility. And that goes everything from bad culture fits to workers that aren’t working or carrying their own weight to everything else. And it is a system that seems to work. So the constant reminder with your with when you’re with your team saying it’s we’ve built something special here, hopefully you have something special that you can actually help that we build something special here. It’s up to you all to protect this house. So when there’s a bad culture fit, it’s up to you all to raise your hand and identify that. But not only that, but rely on one another. So in a restaurant scenario, when people put it on them to cover each other’s shifts, instead of having them call you as the boss and I’m not coming in, have a system where it’s like it’s up to you all to cover for one another. And guess what happens is by protecting this house, when one covers for the other, there’s an expectation that that same thing will be reciprocated. And I love that idea of that and kind of pushing that control and protect this house. It comes from, I think, an Under Armour campaign. But the other piece I use the example of, I was coming home from a Christmas party at our CEOs and my wife turned to me and she said, Chris, how have you stayed here for four years? And, you know, I’m a very, as you can probably tell, ADD kind of entrepreneurial person. And I said, I can break it down for you in one simple thing. And it’s that they’ve given me enough autonomy that in a long enough leash that I can be entrepreneurial and create new things and pursue new things. But they’ve given me enough structure that I’m always feeling like I’m becoming a better leader in person. And in the book, I call it autonomy within structure. But that’s essentially also what they’re looking for.

    Josh Fonger: [00:25:19] Ok, so how do you do that in a safe way without having somebody run too far off the side and then just blow all the money you’re giving them?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:25:26] So, I mean, I think it’s you’ve got that it’s a balance and I think it’s a touch-point thing. And the more touch-points that we can have with our people. And that’s also I say that with the real time feedback, I think you’ll find that a lot of that stuff falls in line. And then also when you have a system, when you have this thing in place where it’s up to them to kind of control the environment that they’re a part of, they they they self regulate.

    Josh Fonger: [00:25:55] That’s very good. So because of our time, I want to get to this question because it’s important for me in my coaching. So let’s say you hire a millennial. How? What are the things you want to put in for sure? You kind of went through with these these balky things,.

    Christopher Tuff : [00:26:08] Yep.

    Josh Fonger: [00:26:08] Are there any tactical things you want to make sure you have in place? So a stay?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:26:12] Yeah,.

    Josh Fonger: [00:26:13] Because you’re investing in them. You’re kind of training them. Anything else? Because they are more flighty, they do jump around and if your a dental office lets say you’re not going to have title the title, the title. I mean they might just I mean they might get a raise every year, but they’re not. There’s not a whole lot of mobility is there are online company where it just skyrockets a hundred employees next year. So what do you want to do to keep them?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:26:37] So one of the things that and it’s contentious with some audience is but I encourage everyone to support their employees side hustle and not only to support it, but to give them time to do it. You look at companies like Google has they have a 20 percent role where 20 percent of their time is actually the employees can allocate it to things that they’re passionate about. Facebook has a program that is a it’s called fuel where they can do the same thing. And I’ve put that in to application and I say to everyone, make sure that 10 percent your time is going towards whatever it is that you want to do. And it just needs to not be in conflict or direct competition with what our current offering is. So the two examples I used as one person on the team that decided to give his marketing prowess to one of the nonprofits in town, and that’s where he put his time. Another one is a woman on my team. She’d always wanted to have an online startup around clothes. And so she started a clothing online company and I helped her with it. Everything from the cap table to the execution. And about six months into it, she turned to me and she said, this is a lot harder than I ever thought. And you end up. She stepped out of that business. But there was a lot of things learned there. And one of them is that you don’t have to leave your job in order to pursue something. And I think you find that with this generation there, they are doing those things. The other piece is a constant reminder that the grass is not greener on the other side. And I call it my 70 30 rule. And my 70 30 rule is that 30 percent of your job is always going to suck. 30 percent of your job is going to be not in line with your passions or your, for me, it’s usually in the form of Excel spreadsheets. Right. And we live in a society, especially with social media and especially with the younger millennials. They’ve grown up with it their whole lives where I say you’ve got to stop comparing your insides to other people’s outsides. And my 70 30 rule is actually just breaking down with them. Their job description. What’s in your 70 percent zone and what’s in your 30 percent zone in guess what? The grass is not greener on the other side. You see these perfect lives of your friends that are playing out. In reality, that isn’t the truth. So let’s always talk about whether or not your your job is 70 30. But there is that you’ve got to be instilling that that whole thing. I mean, when I go as far I bring in a mindfulness instructor where once a month mindfulness instructor will actually help the team live in the moment, experience these things. So I think that’s a big change that’s happened that even a lot of us are can attest to. I think, you know what? What I call a Pinterest station of our generation. I’ve got two young kids you see on the first day of school, everyone’s got their perfect kids with the, you know, Sally’s first day in fourth grade or favorite food. It’s exhausting. It’s absolutely exhausting. So let’s as leaders, help our people. Let that go.

    Josh Fonger: [00:29:35] Yeah. Amen to that. Well, good way. Let me know what’s one question that I should have asked you that I did that you want to leave the audience with before we wrap up our time here?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:29:46] So one of my favorite and stickiest things is a thing that I say turn your let’s and answer it with a by when. And I think we live in a society and a lot of you business owners can attest to this, but many people aren’t willing to put in the work. And a lot of people and a lot of people are also they love. Let’s say let’s let’s do this. Let’s do this program and then there’s no accountability, no follow through. So what I instill with everyone’s they’re going to if they’re going to sell any send an email saying, let’s do this and you’ve got to answer it with, okay, by when and try this and just your your your social life. And when you leave a party or you’re at a party or whatever it is, let’s grab coffee or let’s grab dinner and then you answer immediately with, OK, by when. And then they’re either going to figure out you’re going to figure out they didn’t really want to hang out with you. They’re just saying it. Or you’ll find yourself eating dinner, sharing coffee, sharing a drink with this person the next week. And so I try to also bring that accountability. But then also this constant reminder that it’s the big champagne moments that we all strive for are comprised of these. Small things, lots of small things and lots of small hard work. And you know that as leaders who have started companies, it takes a lot of a lot of this stuff. So we’ve got to, I think, bring a little bit more of that. So answer your let with a by when.

    Josh Fonger: [00:31:10] By when. I love that. I actually have a deadline focus as opposed to just doing that and have it just waste your time. Well,

    Christopher Tuff : [00:31:16] Exactly.

    Josh Fonger: [00:31:16] This has been very helpful. Chris, we’re going you will find more, but you find your book. And to understand millennials better, where do they go?

    Christopher Tuff : [00:31:24] Yes. So the books available almost everywhere, The Millennial Whisper. And we did set up a landing page for everyone listen to this podcast with a free millennial leadership assessment so you can actually figure out what type of millennial leader you are. And you can also download free first chapter of the book, and that is that the millennial whisperer dot com forward slash worked the system and that is two L and two N for the millennial whisper dot com. And then it’s available at Amazon and hopefully your local bookseller at this point,.

    Josh Fonger: [00:31:56] OK. That’s awesome. Well, congratulations to you on the great book. And I’m looking perhaps to pick it up. I won’t read it because I think this is so key. Understand this new generation and to actually manage them well, like you said, they’re reflecting the poor leadership or the leadership holes that we’re actually having and our technology holes. I think it’s yet live in reality. If you had those holes, you can’t just pretend they’re going to go away. It’s gonna accelerate with Generation Z. It sounds like.

    Christopher Tuff : [00:32:22] 100 percent. And I think we need to remind them that life is not perfect and life takes a lot of hard work. And the more that we can instill that, the better it’s going to be.

    Josh Fonger: [00:32:33] Definitely. Well, good. Well, thanks. Somebody will join us live stream today. And thanks to buddies watching the podcast, listening to podcast. And stay tuned in next week, I’ll be sharing with you another business expert like Chris or an author, speaker or previous client to help you grow your business so you can make more and work less. And also, I just want to let you know that if you want to get a copy of that book behind me, work the system copy mailed to your to your house, your desk, your office, leave a review at any of the channels there, Itunes or YouTube, Facebook, our Web site anywhere. Leave a review and send us an image of that info to work the system dot com and draw on one name a week and mailing it out to you if you are the winner of the drawing.

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