Mastering Sales and Persuasion for Business Owners

Do you struggle selling your products and services?  Are you looking for an easy way out or a way to hand off the responsibility to your team?  If sales is not your forte, but you understand how critical it is to your business success, make sure to check out this podcast with Matthew Kimberley.  He has mastered the art and science of sales and can show you what’s working right now in the business world.

Podcast Transcript

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    Josh Fonger: [00:00:00] All right. Welcome to the Work the System podcast where help entrepreneurs make more and work less using systems. And I’m your host Josh Fonger. And today or recording this Facebook live so make sure to give us a thumbs up, add Comments; I’ll try to answer those questions live with Matthew and you can do that. I’m going to work the system dot com liking or following the Facebook page and in this podcast and feature podcasts you can check out. All right Matthew. So let me read your intro and give her one. Kind of a taste of who you are. Matthew Kimberly helps small business owners enjoy more fun freedom and flow. He is the creator of professional persuasion. Delightful e-mails and the single malt mastermind and has spent half a decade as the head of the book yourself solid school of coach training. He hosts the How To Get A Grip podcast and wrote a book on the same of the same name. He lives in Malta with two sons one wife singular and one dog. All right Matthew happy to have you on the show and looking forward to looking forward to learning. So give us the history so how did you get into this line of work of sales training?

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:01:09] Right, back in the day before I even left high school I was in sales I was doing the only job that would have me the legal working age in UK 16 and aged 15 and something months I went knocking on the door of the local double glazing shop the window seller and I said Hey I hear you’ve got a hit, you pay on commission, I hear you turn a blind eye to dates of birth and I’d be happy to make some money. So I started off cold calling old people in their home at dinner time it’s pretty much the lowest of the low when it comes to sales professions. And I still think to this day if you’re somebody who’s cold calling people in their homes at dinnertime trying to sell them something they’ve never heard of then there’s a special place in hell for you and that’s how I started and carried on through various junior sales job. Door to Door, bar work which is very much a sales job and then ended up after a bit of international travel I was working in Italy, in Malaysia, Belgium. I ended up in Malta which is where I live now which is a small island in the Mediterranean. And I was here I wasn’t here illegally but it would’ve been illegal for me to work for work-permit visa situation. So again I needed somebody who turned a blind eye to my situation and I found that timeshare industry. Now you may or may not know much about the timeshare industry but if you ever sat through a presentation then you probably know enough about it to realize that these guys are master manipulators and what I learned during my year long apprenticeship into the world of high pressure psychological selling was that there’s a system for selling was that there is a specific set of steps and processes that you can rely on mathematically in order to get an outcome. And I know this is true because the people I was working with were ugly drunk stupid and yet by following the mandatory system they continued. We continue across the board to close between 9 and 11 percent of every unqualified, sun lotion up, sunburned, prospect that walks through the door. I was just amazed by this and I became fascinated by the psychology of selling but knew that I couldn’t stay in the industry if I wanted my liver and a place in heaven to be remain kind of healthy and guaranteed so I left and I’d go into corporate sales. I was doing recruitment sales so we went from B to C to B to B which was a again a telephone based selling environment. I liked it so much I started my own recruitment company and then realized that I hated being a company owner. So I had a staff we had healthy turnover we had real profits and and after about three or four years some I was way out of alignment. I was like OK I’ve learned everything everything I’ve learnt over the last decade in selling I’m applying I can turn somebody into a salesperson. I can monitor them I can give them routines I can give them structure and they can make sales even if they know they used to have to. You’ve heard this before I’m sure that past the mirror test before I hired them in the mysteries you hold a mirror up to their face and if it steams up they’re breathing then they’re probably good enough to have the job and so there was by relying on the structures I was able to create a recruitment company. But, I was way out of line. My son had just been go when I was working with Gordon Gekko style every hour that God sends. I had a slightly fractious relationship with my business partner. And I realized I didn’t want to be talking C++ programming with procurement executives from large banks for the rest of my life nor did I particularly want to be a manager but there were a couple of things that I did enjoy. One of them was selling and the other one was trading people. So I thought if I could combine the two and become a sales trainer then I’ll be thrilled. Simultaneously, Josh because I’m now a hotshot business owner and one of the hottest districts of Brussels I’m going to all these breakfast networking events and I’d watch these business coaches executive coaches life coaches week after week do terrible presentations. I mean really boring and dry and yet people were paying them and I thought, wow, you can make a living doing this. You can make a living standing up in front of people showing them how to do stuff. And if this guy can then I definitely can. So that was what gave birth to version 2.0 but really especially sixteen point zero of my career which is I’m going to move into teaching selling and preferably from a stage somewhere so I can not only have cash but I can also have glory and adulation. And so I found out I knew that I did what I got. I got divested myself of my share of that recruiting company and jumped headfirst into learning how to become a coach. And I knew I could have winged it is that the past participle of we wing it not wong it. I could have won it. I could’ve taken it wang it could have taken it to market and just made it up as I went along. But that gave me anxiety. I was like I’m probably not doing my clients service. I’m probably not speeding up my learning curve if I make it up every topic. And so I was looking for I can use that word again appropriately a system that I could buy that I could use that I could replicate something that was proven with my clients in order to guarantee them a result. And so I got in touch with Michael Paul to then what was one of my favorite books at the time. Book yourself solid or rather he got in touch with me because I was on his mailing list and he was serendipitously running coach training program. So he was licensing his intellectual property for the use of other professionals in return for study mastery and a fee. And I thought what I could do all of those things I’m good at study I’m brilliant at mastery that that was tongue in cheek and I can afford the fee. So I went ahead and did that I realized holy moly this stuff is powerful. Took it to market got results my clients and became more and more involved in the organization. Book yourself solid until one day I was running it. I was the micros business head to put yourself solid worldwide training up the coaches who were coming through. And that was the beginning really. Does that answer your question? I talk a lot. I’ve been going for like 20 minutes. Well it’s nice to see you. Josh thanks very much for having me on.

    Josh Fonger: [00:07:38] There we go, time to conclude now. Great. I think I have a ton of questions now I want to ask you. Well then I’m going to order. Let me start from the very beginning. Go ahead. My list here. So first timeshares. What was the system? Because obviously they they’re persuasive and manipulators. Like what is the system to sell in that kind of situation?

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:07:56] Well there was a framework. I’m going to say there was a script that wasn’t a script but there was a framework and I certainly can’t remember in order and I’ll probably be missing a couple of pieces. I tried to remember back that many years. But began with somebody being bought in off the street under some kind of pre pre; I’ve lost the way some got some kind of understanding about what they were there for but we didn’t know what it was because the guys outside the street were given free rein. Tell them they’re coming to see a dolphin show. Tell them they’re coming for a back massage. Tell them there’s a free gin and tonics and we didn’t know what they’d been told they would naturally be. I mean what kind of person gets in a car with a stranger when they’re on vacation you want a scratch card scratch and then he bought it. We called them ups because they were unqualified prospects Golden Rule was the guys on the street only got paid if they stayed for a minimum of one hour. So if we let these ups go. If all the hours out they’d be waiting for us round the back off and then they didn’t get paid. They got paid a flat fee we got paid commission only Golden Rule number one and first step of the entire presentation was warm up. Warm up was also discovery so we weren’t allowed to mention the product. We weren’t allowed to mention the opportunity. We weren’t allowed to mention any of that until we’d spent 30 to 60 minutes chatting and what we were actually doing during that chat was eliciting information. We wanted to know how many kids they had how old their kids were with their kids growing college how expensive the college was what they did for a living. What kind of house they had. Had they paid off their mortgage. Where did they frequently go on vacation. What kind of hotels do they stay in. We were doing surreptitious qualification of their asses. Is this person likely to by now. Wasn’t always self evident. You would think it was not right this person always stays in five star hotels. Therefore they’re going to want to stay in a five star hotel. It was often this person always stays in three star hotels. That allowed us to adjust our pitch to say this is where you are today. This is where you could be tomorrow for a very reasonable price. Whereas if they were accustomed to five star living then we’d be selling perhaps an opportunity an investment opportunity cost efficiency so we’d spend that time getting to know them. I forget the various pieces but it was it was always we had to take it to a site visit. Site was a building site. We had to paint the picture of what the hotel would look like when we got there. We had to sit them down and show them all testimonials videos which could last twenty five minutes. We had to show them the show room which was the show apartment. We had to we had to do the logic which was this is how much you’re spending today. This is this is how much you’ll be spending if you do it this time. That was the mathematical applied to their logical brain procedure and it was only set. There are seven or eight pieces we have to do the financial close at the end which was you know put your credit card on the table. If the price is right you’ll do it won’t you. Yes. Good. Let me get my manager. Let me do the pump and the load. And then the bottom off was very important but up was off a few months at this stage not infrequently six hours and agreed to say yes. Then we would have to sit outside legal in order to make sure that it stayed in the bag. Then I would so then legal would would do the. You’re entering to a very serious agreement. Have you been told this have you been told this have you been told this. Oh yes yes yes yes compliance. Dun dun said that there was no room for manoeuvre you couldn’t improvise your way out. Every time you thought you had a lay down. Every time somebody walked in said Hi I’m Barry big wallet what have you got for me. You couldn’t skip it you couldn’t jump you couldn’t take any shortcuts. The shortcuts. Always always always. Over time came back to bite you in the butt. And that was an idea we receive training every single day that we would work first hour of every day was training.

    Josh Fonger: [00:11:59] Wow. That’s interesting. So so training going from there which is it’s like 10 years ago or more to where you are now. You carry some of those same techniques around? Or has the game change? Have people changed? Has Selling changed?

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:12:12] I mean I’m selling a different thing. I don’t think selling has changed. I’m selling different things. Here’s the here’s the interesting thing. There were two teams. Well many interesting stories but there were two teams in this time share organization which is still running today. There was the in the house and there was the cold line. Cold line well unproven prospects on the inhouse were existing customers people who had already bought something either from us or from somebody in the network or from one of the competitors that was where you wanted to work you wanted to work on in-house because you didn’t have to convince them of. Convincing people of anything is difficult but you don’t want to convince them of the merits of investing or buying timeshare. These were proven buyers. You basically had the option to fish in the buy list or fish in the cold prospect based. That is the obvious one which when you go to extract the cash from the asset the asset which has proven buys in the moment you want to go. If they bought from us. They certainly had problems that we could fix the exchange. So that was there was always an up sale or cross sale opportunity. What I’m selling today, I’ve kind of gone in the complete reverse. I read a book after I finished my timeshare training which looks like Bengay The third, and six figure h that was our trainning back then. And then I’m moved into corporate and I discovered a guy called David Sandler who isn’t all around anymore but his organization is and sound and training system I think something like that. And I bump to it. I met a franchised Sandler coach in London over a beer had a couple of chats with him. I was completely sold on the system now. I ended up not working with Sandler for various reasons but they he uses a completely different approach. He says you’ve got to exercise complete control over the situation and you rather than running towards the prospect you’re gonna be fine and the prospects will be chasing you and that’s a very. Or making them chase you. He talks about pendulum. He says if a prospect is he’s leaning towards warm. If you’re talking to them and they’re on a scale of 10 they like 8, 7 or 8. One inexperienced amateur or badly trained salesperson will do is say. Almost in the bag. Let’s see if I can just nudge them up a little bit. You never get start his argument and I’m really dumbing this down because it’s true. Not not for your audience of course but just because my memory inability to explain concepts I didn’t write are great. He says what you really need to do is actually personally completely the other direction. It’s only through momentum you can get an offer. Like your kid is on a is on a swing set, right and they often need there in the 8 or 9 o’clock position. Its super difficult. You don’t chase them when they’re at the peak of their all can try and push them over the line you wait for them to come back again and then you give them a nudge so Sandler talks about for example the takeaway you know the double reverse, double negative close or something. So if someone sounds good. Okay I think I think we’re ready to do this rather than say great let’s get the paperwork. Salesperson says I’m glad you are because I’ve got some concerns. And then you get the prospect fighting you to actually sign the contract you say is that I’m really this is super simplified version of it but I loved that when I discovered that I was like hang on my entire professional career recruitment as well. I put the prospect on a pedestal. I was slightly scared of them in the pecking order. I was the junior and they were the senior in corporate. It was in timeshare we were kind of we had an unhealthy dependence on need for the prospect to say yes. And in recruitment we were just kind of grateful to have been granted an audience with His Holiness the head of information technology at Big Bank PRC. We walk in there and he’d have a big desk and he’d sit down and right so tell us why we should work with you. Well of all thanks so much for giving me the opportunity to come and see you. I know you’re a very busy man. Then you get opened your PowerPoint presentation which we use to print off back in those days. We said I’ve got 45 page presentation and he’s like well hadn’t got much time. You go through every page you’re really really really really really quickly you want to do it with lease amount of words as possible and be would began again with, I am so in control here. I’m going to click my fingers secure. Is he going to come back and take you away. Well I would say now I mean I would trade my clients to sit through a combination of experience what we’re selling. The big impact that sound Levin put yourself on it. All of these things out of my life. If someone looks you in the eye and says So tell us why we should work with your firm. Really the only response is I don’t know if you should. We’re here to find out. So let me ask you some questions. It’s like you get to see the bank right. The bank doesn’t as a retail customer. The bank doesn’t need your business. All right. Which is why they make you fill in which why they make you wait in line which is why you have to take a ticket. Which is why you have to fill in 80 pages which is why they don’t come to your office. Minute they need you. They say this is the way we do things right. You don’t get to dictate the terms of your mortgage unless you owe the big fat cat and then the bank travels to see you and they say don’t worry about the signature we’ll scan something through and they bring you a bottle of whiskey. So I think you can be the bank. I think you can. I think you can. Anybody no matter what size that business has an obligation to their mental health to a sell prospect something that they want to buy. You can either go and say hey I’ve got a brand new way of doing things. I’m gonna show you and convince you of doing that. All you can say hey look you know what I’m good at. You got my expertise you appear to be a hungry crowd. So if you want to eat and you want me to be the person to feed you let’s chat. So you eliminate the desperation at the front end. And then when it comes to the sale you get to choose your customers which the 100 percent put yourself. How did you get to dictate the terms of business. You can’t have a rewarding fulfilling romantic or business relationship unless both parties really want to be there. And so much of the old timeshare sales and frankly still exists today online and off line in every industry works on the assumption that they can trick a prospect into becoming a customer. And you can for sure you go to sleep with yourself at night. Off my off my off from behind the lectern now, sermon over now.

    Josh Fonger: [00:18:36] No, I think this is great to so with with entrepreneurs you mentioned that you could train anybody to sell. And sometimes people think he’s a born naturally a salesperson or you get to hire a salesperson. I work with entrepreneurs and so you do all times they want to push the selling off to a new employee because they are afraid of selling and they’re not trained in selling. So what do you take entrepreneurs through because you know one of the best salesperson people for a company is the owner. So is there a process you take them through? I mean look at the sheet it was like a procrastinators all the way to masters because there are a flow that you have to work with them through?

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:19:13] Yes. Did you. Checked out what it was like. Did you to work with me. Yeah. So the first you said some very interesting. The owner is always the best salesperson is categorically true. Remember when I started in recruitment I was taken to a meeting where we took a 48 page printed out PowerPoint presentation. The first page of the presentation said Vanessa who was my senior colleague senior recruiter Matthew junior recruiter, nobody addressed a word to me. Nothing. Nobody said a word to me throughout the whole meeting because I was the junior the most effective salesperson. Any organization is the most senior person in the organization. Full stop. I want to speak to your manager because your manager is somebody that I’m prepared to deal with. So it’s not. That said if you hate selling and you have other resources available to you for example staff. Access to a great sales trainer who can train your staff and the resources financially to cover all of that. Do it. No one’s forcing you to sell. I think it’s a good idea depending on the size of your business. If you are if you’re really scrappy boop boop boop boop boop.

    Josh Fonger: [00:20:20] Boot Strap.

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:20:20] Thank you. We don’t use that expression in Europe. It’s late in the day for me now 730 well past cocktail hour. If you’re a bootstrapped organization and you’ve got money and yet you’re going away every single hat. So I think if you’re a small organization of say dozen people or less, you should expect to get your hands dirty with sales especially close sales for most industries. And it doesn’t hurt if the owner if the owner is also the person who’s setting strategy really understands the market it doesn’t sell 50 percent of our woes. People I buy first clue who they are what questions that are asked. That said yes I can take somebody from being hopeless to being hopeful I can take somebody from being scared to being confident and there’s a big difference between confidence and enthusiasm. I’ve got plenty of clients who hate selling but are still confident that they’ll get the results right. That’s the difference I am confident. I am, the difference confident and enthusiastic right. I am confident that somewhere in the world today somebody in the next hour of all the 6 billion people on it on the planet somebody has tripped over and broken their ankle. I’m confident I can say with almost statistical certainty that has been one instance of a broken ankle probably since we’ve been talking. I’m not enthusiastic about that. That’s bad news for everybody involved but I can rely upon the data. To give me confidence about that certainty. So you probably will have heard of lead measures and lag measures. I can’t remember who coined it. I’m sorry if it was you. I should give you credit. Not you, Joshua I’m the creator of The Lead measure Lag measure ideas since this give you credit. People say, I’m going to do one hundred K in sales this month. And they get disappointed when they don’t. And often what they haven’t done. Sometimes they have. I’m amazed even at the size of large successful organizations that don’t know the numbers is worked out what needs to be. Well what fuel are you using in order to generate that amount of money. How many offers does that need to be. Let’s say you’re selling a program a course of product a book for a thousand dollars. You know you need to shift 100 units of inventory or inventory as you guys say. Right. So in order to shift 100 units of inventory on the understanding that everybody’s only going to buy one we’re going to have to see 100 buyers. A hundred people are going to have to successfully buy. That means we might have to make the offer and we don’t know at this point. We’re making a hypothesis. We’re gonna hypothesize that we can see 300 people this month who are sufficiently qualified and we’re gonna make 300 offers and if we have a 33 percent closing rate on our 300 offers then we stand some chance of making the money right. In order to have that. We need to make the appointments. So how many people are going to we’re going to have to call to make 300 appointments. Probably fifteen hundred people we’re gonna have to call fifteen hundred people to get a 20 percent closing rate on appointments. And yet it gets to the third week of the month. And people say oh my made many say it was this month. S how many say it was offers if you like. Not many. I say what I think I see a correlation that is not same as isn’t entirely a numbers game but no it is a huge part of it. You know yes we can be smart about it. Yes we can maximize the value of every single opportunity yes we can cross so we can up sell we can tweak our pricing. We can do all of these things. But if we’re not doing the calls if we’re not generating the leads if we’re not making the presentations if we’re not at the end of our presentation saying hey are you going to buy something and we’re not gonna buy Bank we’re not going to hit on it. So I think I what I do with my clients who come to me and they’re typically not salespeople I prefer to have a business owners. Now I used to work a lot with corporate but I find out doing my best work now the people who own businesses. I can instill in them the discipline and the importance of focusing on the numbers and not deviating from the roots to the numbers deviating from the numbers for most of my clients is typically found in things like exploring new marketing opportunities getting obsessed with Instagram taps trying to solve problems that they’re not qualified to solve. Like I’m trying to move my header to my header on my website three pixels to the left or identify opportunities for prestige rather than for results know for approval. I’m trying to get this. I’m trying to get that. They get easily distracted because they’re naturally curious business owners. So I tried to keep on straight. Now I really stand over them virtually and say Look here’s your direction stick to it. The other thing I then do is I mean a lots its kinda what I do for a living. But one of the critical things is people hate changing the nature. But people say the reason I’m making sales is because I’m afraid of failure. And I tend to get like it really sucks. You make 20 offers 30 offers 40 offers a whole two months of offers. I did this in my time so it’s two months of office daily. Twice a day nobody boy thing. Let’s give it all up and you have to be able to do a little bit with that but that’s not the real reason people don’t like it. So people say they’re afraid of failure. I get it. It’s not it’s not right people then say I’m afraid of success I’m just I don’t feel I’m worthy of I don’t get that right. I think it’s laziness. All right if I handed you Joshua plate of success you say thanks very much. You two really do want to work for it. They want the six pack but they don’t want to do the crunches. Right. And I think the real reason they so much sales reluctance in the world is because most people who aren’t psychopaths hate changing the nature of the relationship with the person who they’re friendly with. So we’re getting along fine. We’re getting along great. And. I ruined it all by saying hey give me your money. Like I don’t know we’re getting on so well. Is it appropriate to ask them to become a prospect or is not really the time we’re having a cocktail and it’s really simple I can train them out of that but it has to come with exposure. So simple you say look look person in the eye. You know what I would love to explore doing business with you; Do you think we could schedule the chat about that. Boom. Yeah great boom. Okay. Done. Fantastic. Let’s get it on the calendar. Stuffing the pipeline. Beautiful. Then when you sit down to have that chat respect the intelligence of your prospect. Cut straight to the chase. You look them in the eye. The first question after you explain. After you exchanged niceties. Is so just so we’re on the same page. The purpose of our chat today is to work out whether or not we’re going to be working together is that right. And they say yes then all of a sudden we’re on the same page. And that is the polar opposite of my timeshare days when they didn’t even know there was a sale was off coming until it was too late until they were already bought in and that was not respecting the intelligent of your prospect. You want someone in there who is on the same page as you. You say hey we going talk out a commercial opportunity. What do you say? And sometimes that reframe is all my clients need to hear in order to have the confidence to say.

    Josh Fonger: [00:27:29] That’s good. Well because of time I wanted I didn’t want to skip. But you wrote a book on how to get a grip. You know.

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:27:38] I just I’ve answered three questions in half an hour.

    Josh Fonger: [00:27:41] There’s only twenty more left. We’ll go through an extended version. So what’s. I have not read the book. What is the big takeaway from the book How to Get a Grip. What can entrepreneurs learn from that particular book?

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:27:53] So hold off on buying the book because I got a note from my publisher after six years that it is being republished in a second edition at the end of this year which is excellent news. It’s also changing title. Well am I allowed to swear?

    Josh Fonger: [00:28:12] If you want to.

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:28:13] I’m not going to. I’m gonna use the good use the asterisk but it’s there’s a there’s a glut of books at the moment that are doing very well in the personal development world. Mark Manson I think wrote a book called such a lot of not giving an F.. Yeah it’s another one the mine The Life Changing Magic of something something F and this and you know I am or I used to be a miserable F and so there’s a there. This is selling really really well. My publisher completely of their own accord said this book that you wrote six years ago we think we’re going to rename it and we’re going to reissue it and it’s gonna be called Get an f ing grip. So my book is currently called How to Get a grip. It’s full of profanity on the inside. But if you don’t want it on the outside grab a copy now if you want the new and improved version. It’s a self-help book. So when I was in my miserable years final years of recruitment not seeing my newborn kid fighting with my business partner and reading everything I did was good enough i.e. I slapped myself. I said somebody needs to give me a slap. I need to go to therapy I need to sort something out. I used a creative outlet of writing and I wrote myself a letter really said Kimberly get a grip. And I wrote it publicly in a normal anonymously on a on a website, a blog I think it’s called a web log back in the day and it got some interesting people liked it. They brought in writing a couple of people contacted me including a publisher and it turned into a book. And that was 2011 says really a a no nonsense very profane Guide to Taking yourself less seriously getting more hours in the day and getting better getting stuff done. It’s a great book for reading on the john. It’s episodic short chapters and I’m probably too much to read in one sitting.

    Josh Fonger: [00:30:00] But it sounds like you a lot of entrepreneurs going to get a grip and actually understand how to have a better life right.

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:30:05] To this day, It sold really well in the UK and continues to do so and it didn’t never quite translate to trans-Atlantic because it’s a very British book. I’ve only really discovered besides doing a lot of work in the US but it’s really only been since 2012 2013 and the book was written before then. So it doesn’t translate very well on pushing for a U.S. version of the second edition but every week or at least every month certainly every month every can in the beginning every month now I get someone write to me and say hey that was great because I look back on it as a stupid book. It’s got lots of swear words in it. It’s a bit flippant that it’s so tens of thousands of copies and people continue to write to me and say thank you so much for writing that book. I did some of the exercises. I feel better about myself. You helped me translate into German. I started getting e-mails in German I can’t read German. I assume they said the same thing. I probably find that like this is the worst book I’ve ever read. I don’t speak German so I’ll never know.

    Josh Fonger: [00:31:07] Well because of time Matthew want to give you a chance. I give you the floor for a final thing. So what’s one question I didn’t ask you. I should have asked you something when to leave the audience with, think it would be important?

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:31:18] We used to spend an hour sometimes more warming up our prospects in the timeshare industry and we generally don’t get that luxury and it’s not really practical for anyone who’s running a business that’s systematized and has some sense of scale. There is no better way of turning a cold lead into really cold like someone who hasn’t walked into your show room or attended your event someone who’s maybe curious about the thing that you’re offering on your website is no better way to turn them into someone who’s piping hot than to build an ongoing relationship through email marketing if you will. Everyone’s got a mailing list. Most people doing terrible things with it if anything at all. I’m on a mission to change that. And if you go to delightful emails dot com and have a look at the work I’m doing there it’s about making emails more fun more welcome more effective I want to write I want everyone in my sphere of influence that little influence I have I want to show them that writing marketing emails can be easy can be fun. for you and for your correspondent and can lead to long term financial results for your organization. So delightful emails dot com.

    Josh Fonger: [00:32:30] So that’s for FYI. Check it out myself. It’s definitely a pain point in our organization and then anywhere else I can find you for maybe, I do speaking engagements and self interest, any where else to go?

    Matthew Kimberly: [00:32:40] Yeah, if you go to Matthew Kimberly dot com all probably easy to remember how to get a grip dot com. They both point in the same direction. How to Get a grip dot com, we’ll take you to my podcast landing page. Subscribe to that. Have a listen. That would be great. And if you take the home page there you’ll see my face probably some faces you know some of the clients with me in the past blog doesn’t get updated anymore but make sure you give me your email address so that I can send you delightful missives between now and perhaps one day in the future when it makes sense for us to talk about working together.

    Josh Fonger: [00:33:11] Very good. Matthew appreciate it. Appreciate you sharing your wisdom with us. And everyone first tune in today to today’s podcast to the next week or and be sharing another expert with you teaching you a tool technique or some way to grow your business or you can make more and work less before signing off today I want to make sure that you know that we are giving away a copy of Sam’s book. It’s right behind me right here. Hopefully going to twist his arm and get some of those things signed. And if you leave a comment on one of the platforms or are you watching this this podcast or listening to it later review. Send us an email to info at work the system dot com. Let us know that you reviewed it and we will be sending a one book out every week. All right thanks everybody and we’ll see you next week on the podcast.

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