Massive Growth with COO Mindset

Do you ever wonder what the difference is between a small struggling enterprise and one that does $100M a year in sales? If so, then make sure to tune into this episode with Cameron Herold. He has the golden touch when it comes to explosive growth in business. There are too many lessons to list in this podcast, just make sure you listen and take notes!

Podcast Transcript

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    Josh Fonger: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Work The System podcast. We help entrepreneurs make more and work less using systems. And I’m your host, Josh Fonger. Today, we’ve got a special guest, Cameron Herold. Cameron Herold is the founder of the COO Alliance and second in Command podcast. He’s known all around the world as the CEO whisperer. He’s a mastermind behind hundreds of companies. Exponential growth in Cameron has built a dynamic consultancy and its clients have included a big four wireless carrier and a monarchy. He has earned a reputation as business growth guru by guiding his clients to double their profit and double the revenue in just three years or less. He’s also written number books, which include Double Double, Meeting Suck, the Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs, Vivid Vision and Free PR. Okay, well, Cameron, I’m really excited to have you here today. So tell us about yourself. Tell us how you got in this line of work helping companies double their double?

    Cameron Herold: [00:00:55] Hey, Josh, thanks for having me. I guess where do I start? So I was first off, I guess I was groomed as an entrepreneur when I was growing up. My both my grandfathers owned their own companies. My father owned his own business. And he groomed the three of us as kids to be entrepreneurs. And today, all three of us, my brother, sister and myself, each own our own companies with lots of employees each. And I’ve been doing so for 10, 15 years each. So we that’s kind of the only world we ever knew. When I was 20 years old, I had twelve full time employees on my payroll running a business while I was in second year through fourth through university. So really kind of cut my teeth. Being an entrepreneur. And then I got involved in a group where I was actually coaching franchisees of a company called College Pro Painters. And for four years I was coaching franchisees. By the time I was 28, I’d coached one hundred and twenty entrepreneurs that we’re all running real businesses with real employees. And so I’d really cut my teeth in that coaching space, entrepreneurial space, quite a young age, got involved in a couple of companies that I was able to help grow build a big collision repair chain that we built up and took public, built another company that was in the private currency space that we sold. And then I got involved as a second in command for a group called 1 800 Got Junk. And when I joined, there were 14 people at the head office. And when I left six and a half years later, we had three thousand one hundred employees system wide. And I’d engineered that growth as a second in command, left there 12 years ago now and started coaching, CEOs and entrepreneurs and their teams globally was then asked to start codifying some of my lessons and why it seemed like everything I touched turned to gold. Why were all these companies I was coaching starting to do so well? As an example, I coached the number two and number 12 companies to work for on Glassdoor today. So when you start looking at all these companies that I touched and how they were starting to do, people want to understand that I just started codifying that in my books. And then two years ago, three years ago now started the COO alliance assumed to be a lot of groups for CEOs and entrepreneurs or even so many podcasts that were geared to that group. And I wanted to hear the rest of the story. I wanted to help the second in command. My thought was, we’re teaching the wrong person. We tend to teach the entrepreneur how to run the company. What we shouldn’t do is teach the entrepreneur what needs to happen. And we should teach their COO how to actually put it in place and how to make it happen. So I started the COO Alliance and the Second in command podcast. And that’s what we do to.

    Josh Fonger: [00:03:20] Wow, that is an amazing story. So let’s try to dive in today and figure out what are the nuggets of gold or the secrets to taking companies from just maybe one to three million two hundred million. So let’s let’s use the 1 800 got junk as an example. So you get a company that’s doing 2 million dollars a year. So how do you begin to take that as big as you did? What were the first steps?

    Cameron Herold: [00:03:45] Yes, the three things that identified very early coming into the company within the first few weeks that we decided to make our flywheels and really focus and obsess around. The first one was price. So when I came in, nobody was really making money. The head office wasn’t making money. Franchisees weren’t making money. Employees weren’t making that much money. So I said we have to charge 50 percent more than we’re charging today. We raised our prices across the board, 50 percent to become kind of the FedEx of junk removal or the Starbucks of junk removal. And we tried to price ourselves accordingly. Now, there’s lots of career companies, but FedEx charges a premium, but they were premium service. Lots of places you could get coffee back then, but Starbucks was the premium, but they could give you the premium service. So by charging more, our franchisees made more. We made more. Our employees made more. We could then deliver more to the customer. We that are branding, better packaging, better trucks, better service, a full kind of brand experience. But you can only do that to play in that premium price space. The second thing was we decided to really make our business slightly more than a business and slightly less than a religion is how do we get into that zone of a cult? And if we could really drive culture and really obsess around culture, obsess around becoming a best company to work for. A globally admired brand. Just become one of those iconic companies that in a city or country people would want to go work for. That was going to allow more people to come to work for us. It would drive buzz, drive brand recognition, driving employee engagement. And the happier our employees were, the happier our customers would be, which again would drive profitability and growth. And then the third was the flywheel around PR was how can we get more free press coverage about our company with newspapers, magazines, TV, radio, now bloggers, now podcasters. How do we get more coverage around what we do? Because that third party credibility, that social proof is really what’s going to propel our marketing and sales efforts. And nowadays, I mean, if we you know, when I left 1 800 got junk, Facebook was just starting that month. If we hadn’t had Facebook or LinkedIn or Twitter as a place to amplify all the press we got, we landed we landed five thousand two hundred individual stories about our company in six years. If we could if we could have taken all those stories and showed them three times on Facebook and LinkedIn like we would have, we would’ve been way more than a hundred million when I left. That’s those are the three core focuses and those pretty much are the ones that I would obsessed with companies on today is really understanding their basic key element and margins that obsessing about employee growth and culture.

    Josh Fonger: [00:06:20] Well, let’s let’s dive in each one of those, because oftentimes when I’m working with someone, I want to raise their prices. And so what happened? How do you know how far you can raise it and what is the limit? And how do they find that? And then are there certain things they have to do in their company to be able to justify their raising the price?

    Cameron Herold: [00:06:36] Yeah, so it’s it’s it’s usually around the easiest place to start is kind of 15 to 20 percent more than everybody else. That’s usually a point that you can justify when you go past that. Then it’s like you really need killer marketing, you really need killer branding, you really need killer sales models to really justify being kind of egregious on price, you know, to be the Ferrari or Lamborghini or oh, I don’t even know what’s passed those, like the super cars, 2 million dollars for a car. You got to have some special something that you can price. You know, like the Tesla Model S is priced at the premium level about 20 percent more than all the other luxury sedans. Right. So if you could get a fully loaded 7 series BMW for one hundred grand, you’re gonna pay 130 for a Tesla. So is that kind of a pricing model even and even in my coaching world, you know, my coaching works out to about twenty two hundred dollars an hour. So I’m at a premium level. But there’s people like, you know, Marshall Goldsmith, the coach for two hundred thousand dollars a year. Yeah, I know I’m in that same range right now, so I just didn’t. So that’s all it is is kind of figuring out and then going about 30 percent past that.

    Josh Fonger: [00:07:46] Okay. And then in terms of I mean, other than just…

    Cameron Herold: [00:07:49] You Having, you have to deliver to, right. You can’t just like Starbucks couldn’t charge six dollars for a coffee or five dollars for a cup of coffee have shitty coffee and shitty food and a bad experience like you can’t feel like a Dunkin Donuts. You know, they have to you have to kind of give that full experience as well.

    Josh Fonger: [00:08:06] So it’s not just a commodity. It’s the experience plus the price. And then you can give your best work and.

    Cameron Herold: [00:08:12] Yeah, deliver on your promises, right.

    Josh Fonger: [00:08:14] So then what about this idea of the cult culture? So how important is that for regular? I don’t know. Or regular business or is or maybe I’m thinking about the wrong way. Maybe every business to try to instill this cult culture.

    Cameron Herold: [00:08:28] I think every business should try to. So here’s the best example I’ve ever seen. If you think about Microsoft and Google for a second. Which of those two companies are our best company to work for? Microsoft or Google?

    Josh Fonger: [00:08:40] Google.

    Cameron Herold: [00:08:40] Google. Right. No one ever says Microsoft. So what’s strange, though, is both of them are on the left coast of the United States. Right. Both of them are on the computer engineering space. Both have billions of dollars of cash. Both are technology companies. They both hire the same kinds of people. But Google decided culture was critical. Microsoft focused on their product. Microsoft is a product company. Google is a cult. So in every business, you can decide if you’re going to be the shoe store. Do you want to beat the cult like following shoe store in your city or do you want to be the normal shoe store? Right. I know a shoe store here in town For Runners that people flock to go to, For Runners to buy their shoes. They drive from all over the city to go there, because it has this one location, but it has this cult like feeling to it versus the other place that they’re just shoe stores. So you just have to decide what do you want to be.

    Josh Fonger: [00:09:30] So it’s much more about the brand and the experience and building it up as opposed to just commodity product and getting the price low?

    Cameron Herold: [00:09:38] Yeah. And culture is not about the free massages and the free lunches and the. That’s not what culture comes from. Culture comes from alignment with vision hiring true A players like for real, A players getting rid of the C players. I’ve always said that a player’s a race horses b players are workhorses. C players should go to the glue factory. You have to get rid of the C players and then we have to give our time to the A players. So as an example at this company For Runners, the shoe store, they only hire the best runners in the city to work at the store. So you walk in there and everybody looks like a runner and they’re geeked out on running talk. And there they got running clubs and private running clubs and running giveaways and like purses. You go to like, what’s the, Foot Locker and you see these guys in there and you know that they’re out smoking cigarettes on their break. And they just don’t they don’t feel like athletes.

    Josh Fonger: [00:10:29] Huge difference. So how do you go about. I got tqo question. See yourself first. How do you go about finding your A players and then can you take B and C players and make them A players? Or is that not.

    Cameron Herold: [00:10:40] No, you can’t take A and B and C players and make the A’s. It’s OK to have a bunch of workhorses, though, truly, as you need to have some A players and you need to have some workhorses. So the way you find your players is first to clearly describe what they look like, what they act like, what they feel like, how they perform to create job descriptions that are written in such a way that it really attracts them in a really polarized as some others. A players love reading job descriptions that scare the shit out of 90 percent of the population. Right. It has to be. And get your job descriptions rewritten by a copywriter. You write it so it’s 80 percent done. Get a copywriter to polish it, make it pop off the page. So they read it and go Wo this sounds amazing. Start creating a brand for yourself and an image for yourself. Like wrap your company so that it looks and feels like an A player shop. Right. Go to your company website and say, does it feel like Microsoft or does it feel like Apple, or does it like Google and really kind of creating that brand that wrapping around businesses key. And then I think lastly is creating a an interview, a set of interview protocols that really push away way to C players and only allow you to be spending time actually interviewing As and Bs.

    Josh Fonger: [00:11:49] So in the real world, let’s say in the real world, of course, you’ve done it before. Let’s say you own a an HKC company, right? You need to hire another repair guy and or gal. Typically, you get three resumes for the job and all three people come in are Bs and Cs. What what do you do? What is the technique to really do is about casting a bigger net?

    Cameron Herold: [00:12:13] So I’m currently coaching a guy who makes springs for toasters and for like cars, like a really boring manufacturing company. We’re redoing his office, designing the layout so it feels like an Internet company. Instead like a manufacturing company, he’s getting rid of all the grumpy negative union kind of mentality people and one by one hiring the more fun people that in their spare time running Iron Man. But they work, you know, as a machine shop operators instead of the machine shop operator that goes to the bar and smoke cigarettes, hire a machine shop guys who are Iron Man people. So one by one, getting rid of the wrong ones, one by one, bringing the right ones in. He’s giving everybody five weeks paid vacation, including their sick time across the board. Unheard of in manufacturing. He’s giving everyone a clean work environment. He’s cleaning up the shop floor, painting the shop floor. So it feels more like a chip manufacturer than like a than a machine shop. All right. Yeah. It’s just that one by one is starting to look at and model what the best companies to work for feel like and your company and put it there.

    Josh Fonger: [00:13:18] Now to make that kind of transition. Is it better to do it slow or fast? Because I’ve got to believe if you have been in business for 15 years and you have kind of a certain culture, you have to just stop and then go totally new. Or can you kind of phase out because it seems like there is going to be clashing between A players and C players as you’re making a transition like this.

    Cameron Herold: [00:13:39] Yeah, it’s really important that you actually make the transition not so much slower fast, but methodically. So think about building a house for a second. Well, I’ll give you another example. How long do you think it took to make to to build the Empire State Building?

    Josh Fonger: [00:13:56] I’m just guessing a year. I don’t know.

    Cameron Herold: [00:13:58] It was actually about four hundred and ten days, which is extraordinary to think that they built the Empire State Building in a year.

    Josh Fonger: [00:14:05] Yeah, I know it’s fast. I mean, it’s really fast.

    Cameron Herold: [00:14:07] OK, so that wasn’t that wasn’t that wasn’t the lucky guess that was. You knew it was fast. Most people, though, would think it took like ten years to build the Empire State Building. Five years now. So you can build it fast. But the foundation was strong. The walls were strong. The engineering was strong. The plumbing and electrical got put in. They built it very methodically. Right. They threw people out and they built it quickly. But it’s a very strong foundation, because if it wasn’t, it wouldn’t be there today. So building a fast doesn’t mean cheap, but building from the foundation up. So I see every business like a jigsaw puzzle. Right by hand handed you a jigsaw puzzle. The most important thing for you to start with would be to look at the picture on the box. Right. For me, I call that the vivid vision. What’s the vivid vision of your company look like and feel like so everyone knows what your company looks like in three years so we can build it together. And then I go to the corners of the puzzle. And for me, the four corners of the jigsaw puzzle are your core values, your core purpose, your BEHAG, your big, hairy, audacious goal. And then the plan to make the vision come true. Those are the Four Corners. And then I go to the four sides of the puzzle side. Pieces are all the people systems, strategic thinking systems, the meeting rhythms and the financial systems. So most people try to kind of do the wrong stuff first. It’s obsessing around vision. Core values. Core purpose BEHAG and then building up from there.

    Josh Fonger: [00:15:30] That very interesting. So of those four corners you would say vivid vision this is first and right.

    Cameron Herold: [00:15:36] Yeah, for sure.

    Josh Fonger: [00:15:37] So tell us about that. How do you go about building this through your plan?

    Cameron Herold: [00:15:41] So the three year plan of the three year vision is different than a three year plan. So the three or vivid vision is almost as if you hopped into a time machine, you rolled out to December 30, first three years from today, and you walked around your company and you wrote down what you saw. You described marketing, you describe sales. You put down three or four bullet points describing operations in I.T. and finance engineering. And three or four points about your customer are saying what the media is writing about you, what the meeting rhythms are like. You kind of describe your company as if it’s coming true without thinking about how you made it happen. And then you get that draft written as a four or five page written document describing your future. That’s the vivid vision. The plan comes out afterwards. Right. The plan comes after BEHAG, after core purpose, after core values. Then you get the plan in place to make the vision come true.

    Josh Fonger: [00:16:33] So vivid vision to matches the owner and maybe the key stakeholders, manager,.

    Cameron Herold: [00:16:38] It just owner that’s the owners. The CEO’s job is to describe and articulate a clear vision of where we’re going. And everyone else’s job is to say hell yeah I’m in or I don’t want to do this.

    Josh Fonger: [00:16:48] And so the owner, if they’re not a good writer. Which a lot of owners have really lateral, when do they get help doing that or what’s they do?

    Cameron Herold: [00:16:55] The owner’s job is to to write the first draft and then the you get it to a personal copywriter who can polish it, make it pop off the page.

    Josh Fonger: [00:17:05] Ok. So why do most entrepreneurs not do this? Because, I mean, it seems to mechanically seem simple as it is it the fear that holds them back. Is it because they just don’t think they can ever make a company out big? Because then most companies that they stop at and a plateau at a certain size, they just never get bigger.

    Cameron Herold: [00:17:22] Most people refuse to dream the big dream, right? So it comes down to conceive, believe and achieve when you can actually see what you can see and you can articulate that to your customers, your suppliers, your designers, when everyone can see what it looks and feels like. Then they start making decisions to help you build that. When you describe like let’s say you are building a company to, you know, design a product that was going to be worn by people at festivals and hotels like where were you? I design ideas. And when it was going to look like and feel like, the entrepreneur always knows what it looks like, but no one else does. And if you can all of a sudden get your seamstresses to see what you can see in your banker, to see what you can see in your web designer, to see what you can see, if everyone can see more of what it looks like. They start giving you ideas. They start getting excited about it. They start giving you prices that are way better than they would normally give because they see the vision and they want to be a part of that versus what you are today. So you get people to see what you can see buy into it and then they’ll help you make it happen. You know, Elon Musk. This is a weird example, but I’ve known you on for twenty four years now. You know, you know why the Tesla Model X has the seventh seat option? No idea. So Elan has five kids, pair of triplets per set of triplets and a pair of twins. He’s got five boys. So if he’s going to take his family for a drive, why would he build a car that he can’t take his family for drive in? That’s the whole reason. And it had to be really fast because he used up the McLaren F1. They’d be really sleek. It had to actually fit a 6 foot 5 body because he’s really tall. So I sit in my eyes. So it’s just that I’m 6 4 for lots of leg grip. Lots of headroom. And the seat personally sits behind me. I have my foot fully recline. They’ve got leg room. He designed the Tesla Model X for him, for his family, for his needs, for his design ideas. And then he said, who’s crazy enough to want to help me build this? Most people don’t have the guts to dream big and they don’t have the guts to articulate what they dream. And then they go out and they hire C players and try to manage them. And the C players don’t even know where they’re going. Most most people don’t, as you can see it. But there’s a fly on the window right now. That fly has been trying to get out that window for the last 20 minutes and it’ll try all day and at the end of the day will be dead on the window sill. And it’s trying harder, trying harder. If there’s a door right here, it would just turn to both the door, it would be free. Business people tend to work too hard. Instead of working smart.

    Josh Fonger: [00:19:57] Well, I for sure as definite truth and most ever, most just work really hard. They like the fly and they end up going out of business. So this is interesting because I am I’m raising my three boys. I’d like them to be entrepreneurs as well. And it sounds like you were raised right, because you didn’t seem to have that fear of failure. So what was it? You know, changing topics. But what did you learn of the child that made you not be afraid to hire employees, build a company?

    Cameron Herold: [00:20:25] Well, one was you was again, in the early stages of growing up. I had all these little entrepreneurial ventures. So I actually did a talk. It’s on the main ted dot com site. You got a TED dot com. If you look up raising kids as entrepreneurs, you’ll see a TED talk that I did 10 years ago. Why? Because I was groomed as an entrepreneur. I don’t see running a business as a risk. I see you having a job is a risk. Like no one. I’ll never get fired. I’m in full control of what I do. I can get paid whatever I want. I get to ring. I get to work on what I want. I get to delegate it like I am a fucking gig. Excuse my language. I have a great gig right now that nobody is telling me what to do. And I don’t have to work on anything. But I want. So I don’t see that as a risk. And then I get to decide what I want to build, so I’ll build this. And then I’ll find people who want to help me build it. So that I think is step one. I think the second part is when I was 20, my dad gave me the confidence to start my first business. He said there’s no better time in your life to go bankrupt because you’re only 20 years old. You don’t have anything to lose anyway. I was like, I guess you’re right. Like, what’s the worst case scenario? I just get a job.

    Josh Fonger: [00:21:30] Yeah. Now when you put it that way. And if you have no. I think it’s a big deal. What? Your parents support you and there’s really no shame in failure. The shame is not trying and so.

    Cameron Herold: [00:21:40] Well, it’s easier than ever to start a business right now as well, because all of the systems and processes and tips on how to do it are all available for free or in the courses or books that we’ve got. Right? Whereas 30 years ago starting a company, you had to go to the library to find a book to figure out what to do. And you didn’t even know who to ask to find out what books to do. Like only 12 years ago did we have Facebook where we could actually ask the world what the best books were for something and know right away. Or we had to Google 20 years ago, right prior to Google, prior to search engines, you had to go to a library, look up a book. They’d probably be three, read a shitty book, you’d come back. Like I don’t even know. So you had to learn from failure. Nowadays, there’s no reason to learn from failure. All the information is available.

    Josh Fonger: [00:22:26] Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. So now it’s not lacking information. It’s the application of that information. Almost too much information. So I’ve got like 50 more questions I want to ask you. I only got like five minutes. So let’s get to meetings. I know it’s a hot topic for a lot of my clients. So what did they kind of the highlights having effective meetings and maybe the differences between the online ones and the physical ones, if there is any?

    Cameron Herold: [00:22:49] Yeah, the first is no difference between a physical meeting and an online meeting. So I wrote a book called Meeting Suck. And the reason I wrote the book Meeting Suck was I was tired of people saying that meeting suck. And I realized that most companies have never trained their management team on how to run meetings. They’ve never trained all their employees on how to show up and attended participate meetings. Nor do they even know what meeting rhythm is, what meetings to run. So I wrote a book that’s to be read, to be written or read by every employee meeting stock you want every single employee to read. It takes about three hours. It should become kind of the textbook or the Bible for them on how and how to run meetings, how to participate in them. So that’s the first part. The second part is I’ll give you kind of the core basics. Every meeting has to have a clear purpose. First off, a meeting is anytime you have two or more people in video, in person or on the phone discussing stuff. It’s a meeting two or more people over video on the phone or in person. Meeting has to have a clear purpose, what’s the ovaries, overarching reason we’re having this. Up to three outcomes per meeting. Otherwise, booking an additional meeting. So three main things you’re going to cover. Every meeting has to have an agenda. What are we covering and what order? How many minutes on each agenda item, every meeting has to start on time. In every meeting should finish five minutes early, so if you finish five minutes prior to the schedule, that ending time, it gives you time to walk down the hall. Talk to your assistant, get a cup of coffee and go to the bathroom and show up exactly on time for whatever your next meeting or phone call is. Just some basics there is a lot more in the book.

    Josh Fonger: [00:24:21] Oh, yeah, I’m sure it was a what did the? What are effective rhythms? I mean, daily, weekly, monthly?.

    Cameron Herold: [00:24:29] We’ll start with the end in mind and we’ll work backwards. So the most effective meetings to start with are your annual planning meeting, where you relook at the vision up with your annual goals for the company and then you come up with the rough core projects to make the goals happen. Many of your quarterly planning meetings and quarterly planning meetings to again relook at the annual plan, recommence the quarterly projects that everybody should be working on and get some leadership development. Many of your month’s monthly financial review have the leadership to review the financial statements together and make decisions on the financials as well. And then you have your weekly leadership team meeting, your weekly strategy meeting and your weekly one on ones with each of your team where you’re coaching and developing them. And then lastly is your daily huddle. See all companies, seven minute stand up meeeting at 11:00 a.m..

    Josh Fonger: [00:25:15] Now, do you have that in any type of company? It’s always 11am, always every day. Or is it different in even industry?

    Cameron Herold: [00:25:21] I do, either 11:00 in the morning or two o’clock in the afternoon. There’s two points in the day that have been proven to be when the energy level drops. The first one is at 11:00 in the morning. Second one is at 2:00 in the afternoon. So if you have a seven minute stand up, seven minute huddle, that kind of drives everybody’s energy up a little bit. It gives them a little bit of a boost as well.

    Josh Fonger: [00:25:38] That’s very interesting. I’ve always done that in sales organizations with the pump up time. And you think in total company to office I got try that.

    Cameron Herold: [00:25:45] You can actually goon YouTube and you look up 1 800 God Jog Daily huddle, you’ll actually see a full seven minute video of our daily back in the old days.

    Josh Fonger: [00:25:55] Cool, yeah. I’ll definitely check that out. So what about PR? So that’s a big piece of growth. You get your pipe priced right. You get your cult culture right. And then there’s the big the PR piece. How can small businesses use that today? And what should they be doing?

    Cameron Herold: [00:26:11] Well, the first one with PR is to always be talking to the media about the future of what your company looks like. So you always communicate the vivid vision of where you’re going or what it looks like in the future, not where you are today. If they ask you about your company today, tell them about the future. You’ll always communicate the future and they’ll write about the future. That helps drive the future. Second thing is to remember that every media outlet only makes money from one thing. That’s for advertising. The only way they sell advertising is to have lots of listeners or viewers or readers. So they needed audience looking at their stuff. The only way they’d get that audience is to have good content. So they need good content and they can’t afford to go out and find it. So you’re doing them a favor by coming to them with a story. So what I like to do is contact them and say, hey, do you have two minutes? I think have a great story for you. They’re probably going to say, sure, what’s the story? Because they just want the quick cheat sheet giving the story and they’re probably going to write it.

    Josh Fonger: [00:27:06] Any particular medium is to go to?

    Cameron Herold: [00:27:08] Mediums?

    Josh Fonger: [00:27:09] Like does it depend like magazine, newspaper, online?

    Cameron Herold: [00:27:12] Depends on where your audience is? So where do your customers devour their content? If your customers are housewives of your customers or business people, if your customers are technologies or accountants, like depends on who your customer is and then what content they read, they devour. And then you go to those outlets to give them your story so that your customers see it. And then when you get a given, when we recovered on Oprah, Oprah didn’t like blow the doors off our company, even though was a six minute piece. But the fact that we could put it on our Web site, talk about being on Oprah nowadays, we could have shared it on Facebook and Linkin and Twitter and e-mailed that out to everybody. It’s about taking the story and the coverage you get and amplifying it. That’s the real power comes from.

    Josh Fonger: [00:27:54] Well Cameron, this has been really helpful to me. I got a whole bunch of notes and I’m learning a lot in terms of what I can do with my coaching and consulting clients. And before I go I wanted to at least, you can have a floor. Is there a certain question I should have asked you? You wish I would’ve asked you that you want to leave the audience with,.

    Cameron Herold: [00:28:09] I guess, one. The one thing that I always talk about is that I was just coaching a CEO this morning who’s running a 30 million dollar company on this. I remember something that none of this actually matters. That at the end of the day, we’re all going to die and we’re all just kind of walking each other home. And if we can’t have some fun along the way and laugh a little and not take ourselves so effin seriously, kind of what was the point? So I think it is just to not take ourselves so seriously and have a good time and enjoy the journey. Right.

    Josh Fonger: [00:28:38] That’s great. That’s great. Because a lot of entrepreneurs are extremely stressed out and they’re not enjoying it at all. So that’s great advice. So where can people find you if they want some help? They’re speaking, coaching, books. Where do they go?

    [00:28:49] Yeah, I would start with it. The books are all available on Amazon, Audible, and Itunes. I have audio versions and Kindle versions and hard copy versions of all five of my books on Amazon. And then the COO Alliance. The minimum criteria for that is 8 million in revenue. But if you’re eight million Dollar plus company, and you have a second in command that the report shows the CEO Alliance. Then also check out the podcast. The Second in Command podcast, everyone is interviewing the CEO. I only interview the COOs. I want the rest of the story. So we’re talking more about the operational ideas of how to scale great companies.

    Josh Fonger: [00:29:22] Great. Very good. And I hope everyone enjoyed the podcast today with Cameron Herold. And make sure to stay tuned next week as I share with you another podcast from my past clients. You can hear their steps of success or business expert like Cameron sharing a tool technique or their wisdom and how to be successful so you can make more and work less. Before we sign today, make sure leaves a comment on whatever platform you’re watching or listening to this podcast and send that comment over to infor at work the system dot com. Once a week we’ll be drawing a name out of there and sending you a copy of hard copy, a signed copy of Sam Carpenter’s book Work The System, so it makes sure we do that and send it our way. Thanks, everybody.

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